Leslie Venetz
I have hired hundreds of people, interviewed 1000s of people, and a huge red flag is when I ask, why sales? And they're like, people tell me I have the gift of gab. And I'm like, see your way to the door, sir.
*Beyond Quota Intro*
Ben Gould
Welcome to another edition of the Beyond Quota podcast. My name is Ben Gould. And today I will be interviewing Leslie Venetz right from my closet. Leslie is a powerhouse of the sales profession. So if you don't know her, stay tuned, because you'll get to know her. I'm going to be asking her 10 hard-hitting questions one after another. There might be a few follow-ups in there so don't count, but this is going to be a new format. Let us know what you think. And enjoy!
Is Chicago starting to get freezing yet?
Leslie
It's 72, Ben. You can't see it. But I'm literally wearing like a casual summer dress.
Ben
I guess this goes right into my first question, which is why is Chicago the best city in the world?
Leslie
The list is long, but things that are at the top of the list. Food. The food scene is incredible here. I don't know if I'd say it today post-COVID, but like 2018, 2019, I would say that Chicago arguably was the best food city in the nation. When you think about quality versus accessibility. The outdoor scene is awesome when you think about all of the street festivals and the huge festivals we have in Grant Park right on the lake. I mean the lake! God, you can't see it because you're looking at my face but I'm looking at an unobstructed view of Lake Michigan. It looks like an ocean. My gosh, the diversity, the music scene, the theater, the list is long. I can go on and on. I love it here.
Ben
Chicago is the best city in the world. But you're from Montana.
Leslie
I mean, let's not go so far as to say the world, Ben.
Ben
Okay, okay. Northern Illinois. You're originally from Montana. So I hear it's exactly like the show Yellowstone with Kevin Costner.
Leslie
No, it is not like Yellowstone. We do not commit murder in mass. And I'm not sure if I know anybody, like quite as dramatic as that family in my real life. It is that beautiful. Maybe even more beautiful. I think only the first or like one of the seasons was shot in Montana. And then they move somewhere else that was cheaper, easier, better seasons. I don't really know. But it is stunning.
Ben
Okay, moving on. We've covered the geography questions. I'm a big geography guy. Is there still a Bro Culture in sales? And as a writer and collaborator for Corporate Bro, am I the problem?
Leslie
First question, is there a Bro Culture in sales still? Yes. 100%. Yes. Even got a big like dose of it. Big reminder of it myself this week. I know. I know. And are you part of the problem? I don't think so. I feel that we share a lot of the same ideas and values. And I feel like on that list of values are not like "I don't respect women." I think it's quite the opposite. I would say you lean towards being like an ally and advocate for social justice causes including women having the same rights as men, but like, I've also watched a lot of Corp's content. And like some of it, it plays into the bro-y shit. Some of it plays into that there's a huge audience for that, um, but then a lot of it, which is something I'm really passionate about, which is like respect for sales as a profession, not just like as a gig or a career. I think he does a really amazing job of highlighting that sales is a craft and it is a profession that deserves respect.
Ben
Okay, more sales-focused question here. You said in an earlier interview with the legendary Andy Paul on the Sales Enablement Podcast - shout out - that part of your early success was due to doing two to three hours of research when you got home every night. So you'd be prepared to prospect and dial the next day. Is that homework, something you'd recommend young reps do today in this age of quiet quitting?
Leslie
So yeah, that's totally right. I was in a super transactional environment. And we were not given any leads at all. And we also did not have lead software. So every single lead that I was going to call on was one that I had to find and like find the contact information and validate myself. And it took a lot of time, no surprise, right? Didn't have a tech stack to support it. And I realized very quickly that if I had to do that two to three hours of work in the office, that was two to three hours, I wasn't going to be on the phone that was going to prevent me from achieving my personal goals, which were at the time was like having enough money to buy food and medicine. That's another story. Would I recommend it, like, do I recommend hard work? Always? Yes, I think hard work wins. But I think there's a big distinction between hard work and hustle culture, I feel like a lot of what we see, or certainly at least what I see, is like a shame game if somebody doesn't put in that two to three extra hours of work, or if they're not waking up at 4am to hit the gym. And I'm a hard pass on shaming people for living the life that they just choose to live. And there's also a lot of like, DEIB issues there. Because some people don't have the ability to do that extra work or wake up early because they have other responsibilities. But if you don't have any other responsibilities, and it's something that you feel is like in your bandwidth and aligns to your values and goals, then it's not going to hurt you to put in some hard work particularly early in your career.
Ben
All right, next question are gatekeepers evil and why can't we trust them?
Leslie
Are gatekeepers evil? No. Are gatekeepers often like better doing their jobs, which is gating access to the decision maker than we as salespeople are at our jobs, which is gaining access to the decision maker, like Yes. And I would say, most of the time, I would not default to trusting them because they're going to say in their like, probably super friendly, super nice voice, like, "Sure, send something over, or like, Sure, I'll take your message." And it has been my experience that the percent of times that message is translated to the decision maker isn't common. At least it's less common than the times it works.
Ben
Yeah, I think that's an easy mistake that a lot of salespeople will make. Because they think they can come in and swoon the gatekeeper. Give them some virtual flowers over the phone and then now they're on your team, but really, you've just talked to them for 15 minutes. So next question. Early in your career, right out of college, you were closing CFOs at Fortune 500 companies, is that correct? And if so, how did you muster up that courage?
Leslie
It is correct. And I would say that it was less courage and more like absolute naivety. Like I just -
Ben
It's like the young sports team that don't know what the stakes are.
Leslie
Like, nobody had told me what a big deal it was. I'm selling a product I really believe in. Why wouldn't they want to talk to me? And I have really early success. So I was like, oh, yeah, like, this totally validates my thinking, let's just keep doing this. And it wasn't until later, like years later, when I was going to the events, because it was I was selling like a community as a service like business intelligence product. And I was live with these CFOs. And I was in the rooms listening to their discussions. And like, seeing who the keynote speakers were, right? Like it was Colin Powell and George Bush and I was like, oh... I learned quickly how to speak their language, which was a part of the success. But I think that they there was also an appreciation that I spoke to them like a human. That I didn't try to use these huge words or sound super important.
Ben
Yeah, that's so true. Being a human that's become a theme on the Beyond Quota podcast. Alright, so here are some kind of general questions. If you hit quota - you're generally a top performer, would you say?
Leslie
Yeah, 14 out of 15 years exceeded quota. I went beyond quota.
Ben
If you go beyond quota, hit your accelerators, but you don't finish number one on the leaderboard. How are you feeling?
Leslie
Oh, wow, that is... like me personally? Grateful for the success I experienced in the checkout and a cash but I would still feel like I maybe left something on the table. Or I would have wondered what else I could have done to pull in that extra deal or, you know, do that extra upsell to get to number one.
Ben
So I was just listening to a podcast that my cousin produces and he quoted Gore Vidal who said, "every time a friend succeeds, I die a little." Kind of applies to this situation. So next question, do you love to win or do you hate to lose?
Leslie
Hate to lose. Winning's nice. But I definitely don't want to lose. Oh my god, what that would do to like my guilt-ridden, anxiety-ridden mind?
Ben
Next question, does sales come naturally to you?
Leslie
To me? Yeah. It sure does. Yeah.
Ben
There's kind of a theory that I'm trying to flesh out. That's like, the people who haven't done sales, and they're like, oh, cold calling? That's not for me. As if it's for anyone. You know?
Leslie
Cause cold calling is so fun. Yeah.
Ben
But, but I think that sales does definitely come naturally to some people. People see this hard thing that they don't want to do and assume that the people that are good at it are like, oh, yeah, I actually enjoy that. Yeah, no, not at all.
Leslie
I wouldn't say like, the enjoyment of of doing the hard things comes naturally to me. Like, particularly that first job that we were talking about when I was doing 150-200 calls a day, like nobody's showing up every day thinking, "Yeah, I can't wait to crush 200 more phone calls to reach four CFOs, two of which will scream at me." But knowing it enough that I became really good at it feels good, right? Like, it is a skill that I have honed and it feels good to be good at things. But I maybe would change my answer a bit to say that it isn't that sales in and of itself, like the profession didn't necessarily come easy to me. The skills that I was able to apply to have success throughout my career. Those came a bit easier to me like I'm like a naturally curious person. That helps. But I cried a lot when I was figuring it out.
Ben
Yeah. I was listening to these guys, and they were talking about Glengarry Glen Ross, the movie, and they're just movie guys. And they were saying how, you know, who would be the better salesperson. "I think you'd be the better salesperson because you're just friendlier and you like talking to people." Which is like, one aspect of it. But the other aspect of convincing someone to give you their money is totally different than being friendly and chummy and nice with the gatekeeper.
Leslie
When I'm hiring, and I've hired hundreds of people, interviewed 1000s of people, and like a huge red flag is when I ask - because it's a lot of like, entry level, like SDR and BDR roles - And I'm like, why sales? And they're like, people told me I have the gift of gab. And I'm like, see your way to the door, sir.
Ben
Okay. Would you rather... This is kind of a dumb question, but it's about the team. Would you rather be the only one on the team to hit quota? Or the only one to miss quota?
Leslie
Yeah, I'm gonna win. Like, I'm sorry, if I can bring you with me. I will. But like, if I can't...
Ben
When I was framing this question, as soon as I finished it, I was like, the answer is kind of obvious, but -
Leslie
There was a question, kind of like this on LinkedIn that I saw a week or two ago and it was from like, maybe like one of the RepVue guys, or somebody and it was about hiring. And the question that they always ask in interviews, is would you rather be a top rep on an underperforming team or would you rather be an average rep on a high performing team? And he said that the most common answer is actually to be an average rep on a high performing team because that's what salespeople think he wants to hear. But before I actually clicked into the "See More" and read the comments, I was like, top rep. Like yeah, me, me. accelerators me.
Ben
Yeah. I understand that thinking, like wanting to be the average rep on a high performing team because then you're going to be at a good company maybe. But yeah, I mean, who would you want to hire? Definitely top rep. Two more questions. This one is going to be hard. You can name multiple people. But someone's going to be left off this list. Who is the best salesperson you know?
Leslie
I will tell you the first person that popped into my mind is the first AE I hired, this guy called Oliver Ellsworth. And I'm not sure if he's the best overall salesperson that I know. But what I will say is that he is hands down the best prospector - we were all running full cycle - the best prospector I've ever met in my entire life. And like, I know, a lot of salespeople, I've managed a lot of salespeople, and he just was so good at it. I learned so much from him.
Ben
Just like breaking into accounts? That's just his bread and butter?
Leslie
I mean he was good at the full cycle. But he was like an 11 out of 10, like 13 out of 10 at that particular piece of the cycle.
Ben
That's a salespersons best friend.
Leslie
Dude, seriously. I mean, I would not have gotten the business to where I did that fast without him. Full stop. Now he moved back to Milwaukee and went back to the company that he was at before we were at the startup together. And now he's gone on to the position of President.
Ben
Last question. Can you describe salespeople in one sentence?
Leslie
No. I refuse.
Ben
All right. That is 10 questions with Leslie Venetz. Leslie, thank you so much for taking the time to enlighten us with your sales knowledge.
